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Christopher Childs

Re: A gift to you guys from TOTAL ANNIHILATION
Publié: 29 juin 2002 04:01

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"paranormalized" <cnendabeznyvmrdq@rndeguyvdax.arg> wrote in message
news:s6mphuk6cadukmj8j10obe89vffqg4cbpn@4ax.com...
> As opposed to an ideal interface which would go...
>
> Click peon. Hotkey-hotkey, shift-click N times.
> or
> Select peon group away from build-site. Hotkey-Hotkey, shift-click N
> times.
>
> The scrolling/movement takes twice as long as the rest, or more, so
> things take twice as long as they should, if not worse.
>
>
> Hotkeys are handy, but they're only a supplement to queueing, not a
> replacement. Do they fix this in WC 3?

No, same building method. I'm guessing they can't do it properly since the
Night Elves lose their worker unit when building the Ancient variety of
buildings.

Christopher Childs

Re: A gift to you guys from TOTAL ANNIHILATION
Publié: 29 juin 2002 04:11

Répondre

"Steven Ung" <steven@gtekmy.po.my> wrote in message
news:afgj21$efcqv$1@ID-121643.news.dfncis.de...
> "SHONNER" <shonner@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3d1bc5f0_1@news.vic.com...
> > And just because I told my Aircraft Plant to build 50 Bombers, it
doesn't
> mean that they will all get built.
>
> In SC, if you had queued 5 units, cancelling it would not get you back all
> the cash needed to queue that unit. Is it the same for TA?

Incorrect. Queuing and cancelling units does not incur a cost penalty.
Cancelling a building in production, on the other hand, does incur such a
penalty.

paranormalized

Re: A gift to you guys from TOTAL ANNIHILATION
Publié: 29 juin 2002 08:37

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On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 02:01:15 GMT, "Christopher Childs"
<chris.c@dubba.net> wrote:

>
>"paranormalized" <cnendabeznyvmrdq@rndeguyvdax.arg> wrote in message
>news:s6mphuk6cadukmj8j10obe89vffqg4cbpn@4ax.com...
>> As opposed to an ideal interface which would go...
>>
>> Click peon. Hotkey-hotkey, shift-click N times.
>> or
>> Select peon group away from build-site. Hotkey-Hotkey, shift-click N
>> times.
>>
>> The scrolling/movement takes twice as long as the rest, or more, so
>> things take twice as long as they should, if not worse.
>>
>>
>> Hotkeys are handy, but they're only a supplement to queueing, not a
>> replacement. Do they fix this in WC 3?
>
>No, same building method. I'm guessing they can't do it properly since the
>Night Elves lose their worker unit when building the Ancient variety of
>buildings.
>
That's not a *real* reason. You should just have to grab them in
groups, and hold shift while pressing the hotkeys and clicking. Then
the menu for the group resets to the basic menu, and the group
diminishes by one after each build site is selected, or else uses a
different unit. If you can find any other equivalent way to do this,
go for it. But it should be feasible.

I thought they made something similar to this for spell-casting, at
least, so you don't do the equivalent of spending all your psi-storm
on one spot uselessly. Maybe I read the website wrong? With the
seeming even greater emphasis on spell units, I thought they were
extending the GUI/automation on that end, at least...

Yeah, maybe it means that you'll have to write some extra menu code
for how orders are handled by workers. Blizzard should be able to
afford it, both in time and money, with their track record and sales.
Hopefully in the eventual expansion? I hear AOE2 solved some micro
with their expansion, w/ auto-farms, so the precedent is set...

Jonathan Fisher
----------
paranormalized man, subnormalized otaku

ROT13 and then delete all instances of the letter after P to email
Yeah, I've been getting my alphabet mixed up the past couple months.
Sorry.

Sean Keenan

Re: A gift to you guys from TOTAL ANNIHILATION
Publié: 29 juin 2002 08:49

Répondre

"paranormalized" <cnendabeznyvmrdq@rndeguyvdax.arg> wrote in message
news:5hkqhu0dsor7jjd9q5f75tkrs3463jsi17@4ax.com...

> Yeah, maybe it means that you'll have to write some extra menu code
> for how orders are handled by workers. Blizzard should be able to
> afford it, both in time and money, with their track record and sales.
> Hopefully in the eventual expansion?

I'm not sure that'd be a good thing. Why?

I hear AOE2 solved some micro
> with their expansion, w/ auto-farms, so the precedent is set...

Here's why. AoE2 has a very deep economic game. It's a lot more than
setting a few guys at some minerals and forgetting about 'em for the
game.
And often, you would have LOTS of workers. Over 100. Because you needed
those for 6 castles pumping longbows that constantly were massacred in
back-and-forth battles.
And that, my friends, is too much micromanagement. Try replanting 40
farms that all just expired as your castle has just been bombarded by a
trebuchet or three.
Woodcutters needed some micro too. The trees got chopped down..
eventually, they'd end up walking quite a distance to get the trees. New
log camps are necessary to keep strong wood-flow (what with 40 farms,
and then units, and all). But.. while you are waiting for the camp to be
built (with 6 peons for speed~~), another castle gets trebbed. Whoops,
you forget about your woodcutters and have 6 idle woodies for a while.
Well, that is a bit much micro there too. Expansion made it so that as
soon as a gathering place was built, the peons would go work the
appropriate resource. So now those six woodies went straight to work.
Sorta like how SCVs start mining gas right away. AoE2 also let you
rally-point workers to the resource. And they would go to the nearest
available resource to mine, instead of waiting for the mineral patch to
be available... AoE2 took out a lot of micro.. why? Because there is
still a shitload left. And that's a lot of the fun of the game.
Taking out the building/mining micro of WC3/SC would... leave nothing
left for the user to do. The very fact that you have to keep going back
helps you remember your major plans in frenetic games.

paranormalized

Re: A gift to you guys from TOTAL ANNIHILATION
Publié: 29 juin 2002 09:00

Répondre

On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 22:21:37 +0100, "**Scorched**"
<scorched@hotmail.com> wrote:
*snip snip*
>>
>> You can make new units for starcraft, it's just a royal pain in the
>> ass :P
>>
>> Plus, they won't work in multiplayer, but oh well =)
>>
>
>'xactly

That's one of the best things about TA for me, you can just make
>whatever you want and use it... easily too. Basically, the only limits are
>your imagination, you can create what you want, dragons, demons, ghosts,
>robots, aliens you name it..... it's a *very* good idea - pity games
>developers don't often do this, they don't like people messing with their
>code etc

??? I didn't think you could create 'spell units,' per se, as in
status ailments and such. For starters, it would require either an
addition to the basic unit stats to add 'energy/mana', or else an
ungodly cooldown time. And even then, the most I know you can do to
change an enemy unit's behavior is 'paralyze', via the spider laser.
And maybe the 'decloak torpedo' in Uberhack, but that's just a
low-level high-area damage thing, affecting a special unit, IIRC.
Nothing as thorough and wide-ranging as the default SC units.

Correct me if I'm wrong, or else I'd imagine some nutcase would try to
make an ungodly TA/SC hybrid. BTW, can the SC unit editor (or
whatever it is) create new spells/attacks for units? And is it an
'official' product, or a fan-created one?

TA's genius was in making the unit files seperate enough and open
enough that the fans could step in and make the tools for making the
units in question. Heck, fans fixed the behavior of the Necro unit!
(a resurrector bot) I think Chris Taylor was inspired by Quake in
making the design decision, though I could be mistaken.

Jonathan Fisher
----------
paranormalized man, subnormalized otaku

ROT13 and then delete all instances of the letter after P to email
Yeah, I've been getting my alphabet mixed up the past couple months.
Sorry.

**Scorched**

Re: A gift to you guys from TOTAL ANNIHILATION
Publié: 29 juin 2002 11:34

Répondre

"Sean Keenan" <x4yarules@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:afikmu$f1fp3$1@ID-131846.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "**Scorched**" <scorched@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:aficd1$9dq$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > "Marco" <marcosbox@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns923B3183ADD41marcosboxhotmailcom@205.237.233.50...
> > > Sean Keenan wrote:
> > >
> > > >> There is a lot of emphasis in TA on resourse management.
> > > >
> > > > If you want resource management (complete with excellent
> strategies,
> > > > lots of thought, and optional micromanagement), go play Age of
> Empires.
> > > > Either of em.
> > >
> > > Yea, I never tried AOE 2, but I did play the original quite a bit.
> 4
> > > resourses etc. It seems like too much emphasis on resourse
> management, I
> > > personally found the game a little boring, but obviously others
> disagree -
> > > seems there are a lot of people still playing it.
> > >
> >
> > Boring - yes.
> Quite exciting at more competitive and skillful levels.
Nope. It is *still* pointless.

>
> > Micro$hit - yes.
> They prosper. Admire that, at least.
Next you'll be asking me to worship the devil.

>
> > Too much emphasis on resource management - yes.
>
> True.
>
> > Fun - no.
>
> Yes, it is.
>
> > Variety in units - none.
>
> There's the simple archer/cavalry/footsoldier with artillery. It's the
> basics of war. It's fun.
No variety is *not* fun.

> > I have AOE2 and AOE and AOE2: Conquers expansion so I know what I am
> talking
> > about

There is such a lack of variety it is amazing....
> >
> There is a wealth of strategy in higher skill levels.. not in the
> newbies' BLACK FOREST ALL REVEALED HIGH RESOURCES~~~

I don't play AOE2 on the internet, hence I haven't been on one of those lame
maps. You are obviously the expert though.
I play normally on hard, it makes games last longer - and it is still just
tedious.... there is no fun in continuously gathering resources.

--
===============> http://gameworld.f2g.net <===============
"Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies."
"It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether *I* win or
lose."
"I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it."
"Some people are going to leave a mark on this world, while others will
leave a bloodstain."
"A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic" -Stalin

Moen

Re: A gift to you guys from TOTAL ANNIHILATION
Publié: 29 juin 2002 17:20

Répondre

On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 16:56:44 GMT, Eric Byers <eihjelmt@NOSPAMonline.no>
wrote:

> >You have obviously never seen a real war, or even a simulated one in
> >real life.
>
> *lol*
> And you have?

Well, I've been a few weeks in the field, where we had both tanks,
planes flying over us (simulating bombing), etc. etc. I also went on
patrols and was hooked directly up to the batallion commander, who gave
us instructions. I could overhear their strategic and tactical decisions
and follow their moves on my map. We had lazers for aiming, which meant
that you could actually register hits, and when you are hit, you die.
Etc. etc. It's just so stupid when someone talks about "real war", when
they are really just talking about a game.

Moen

Re: A gift to you guys from TOTAL ANNIHILATION
Publié: 29 juin 2002 17:22

Répondre

On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:03:03 GMT, Eric Byers <eihjelmt@NOSPAMonline.no>
wrote:

> >It's a game. Just like TA. I've seen claims that TA is "very realistic",
> >but this is obviously stated by people who have never been involved in
> >real-life battles, either on the battle field, or at command posts
> >(where orders are issued).
>
> *lol*
>
> Being in the Norwegian army isn't comparable to being in a real war,
> you know.

Being in the army is far more realistic than playing a game anyway.

Eric Byers

Re: A gift to you guys from TOTAL ANNIHILATION
Publié: 29 juin 2002 19:53

Répondre

On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 15:22:51 GMT, Moen
<h-news@operamail-dot-com.invalid> muttered something along the lines
of:

>Being in the army is far more realistic than playing a game anyway.

Sitting on the toilet is more realistic than playing a game. That
doesn't necessarily make it interesting...

--
The Oblivious Eric Byers
of the Adjective Army

Bury magnets. Swallow the rapture.

Zealot The Crazy Vous

Re: A gift to you guys from TOTAL ANNIHILATION
Publié: 30 juin 2002 02:02

Répondre

Ok, so I was shredding some zerglings in alt.games.starcraft on Sat,
29 Jun 2002 07:00:59 GMT, when paranormalized
<cnendabeznyvmrdq@rndeguyvdax.arg>, started attacking me out of
nowhere. After I got a detector and saw he was a DT, he said "Re: A
gift to you guys from TOTAL ANNIHILATION" and I said::
>??? I didn't think you could create 'spell units,' per se, as in
>status ailments and such. For starters, it would require either an
>addition to the basic unit stats to add 'energy/mana', or else an
>ungodly cooldown time. And even then, the most I know you can do to
>change an enemy unit's behavior is 'paralyze', via the spider laser.
>And maybe the 'decloak torpedo' in Uberhack, but that's just a
>low-level high-area damage thing, affecting a special unit, IIRC.
>Nothing as thorough and wide-ranging as the default SC units.
>
>Correct me if I'm wrong, or else I'd imagine some nutcase would try to
>make an ungodly TA/SC hybrid. BTW, can the SC unit editor (or
>whatever it is) create new spells/attacks for units? And is it an
>'official' product, or a fan-created one?

The closest thing to a "Unit creator" would be StarGraft, a 3rd party
product made by Camelot Studios(it's free). There's also StarDraft,
but that can only edit existing characters. Both are them are fairly
difficult to use, but can create Blizzard quality characters if you
give enough time and effort. You can also create new buildings as
well. While I have never actually seen it done in the game, I've heard
about it and seen screen shots; it was all planned for the 3rd Episode
of the Antioch Chronicles(which has been unofficially canned due to
lack of $$ and time).

>TA's genius was in making the unit files seperate enough and open
>enough that the fans could step in and make the tools for making the
>units in question. Heck, fans fixed the behavior of the Necro unit!
>(a resurrector bot) I think Chris Taylor was inspired by Quake in
>making the design decision, though I could be mistaken.

This sounds like the openness of maps in Starcraft. You can
essentially construct campaigns of the original quality, or even
better, using the campaign editor and some non-Blizzard patches.

--
DOH!
=)
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ICQ:65589349
Zealot the Crazy Vous
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http://clix.to/cz
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re-vamped sig xp Build 2004.21-SH

Invité

Re: A gift to you guys from TOTAL ANNIHILATION
Publié: 30 juin 2002 13:11

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Moen

Re: A gift to you guys from TOTAL ANNIHILATION
Publié: 30 juin 2002 13:11

Répondre

On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 17:52:06 GMT, Eric Byers <eihjelmt@NOSPAMonline.no>
wrote:

> >Etc. etc. It's just so stupid when someone talks about "real war", when
> >they are really just talking about a game.
>
> It's also equally stupid when gung-ho wannabies talks about real war,
> when they're just talking about puny exercises in the Norwegian
> "army"...

I don't quite think you are getting the point. I'll try to explain it in
simple words for you.

TA = game

Army = more realistic than game

But: Norwegian army != real war

Conclusion: Talking about TA as being "real war" is nonsense, as it has
got nothing to do with real war. Even less that the exercises some
soldiers go through during their time in the army. Even this doesn't
come close to real war, though.

**Scorched**

Re: A gift to you guys from TOTAL ANNIHILATION
Publié: 30 juin 2002 17:33

Répondre

"Moen" <h-news@operamail-dot-com.invalid> wrote in message
news:7npthuoiv5o7uqirnhjbf6g9netctoqval@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 17:52:06 GMT, Eric Byers <eihjelmt@NOSPAMonline.no>
> wrote:
>
> > >Etc. etc. It's just so stupid when someone talks about "real war", when
> > >they are really just talking about a game.
> >
> > It's also equally stupid when gung-ho wannabies talks about real war,
> > when they're just talking about puny exercises in the Norwegian
> > "army"...

>
> I don't quite think you are getting the point. I'll try to explain it in
> simple words for you.
>
> TA = game
>
> Army = more realistic than game
>
> But: Norwegian army != real war
>
> Conclusion: Talking about TA as being "real war" is nonsense, as it has
> got nothing to do with real war. Even less that the exercises some
> soldiers go through during their time in the army. Even this doesn't
> come close to real war, though.

Army = real
Norweigan Army = a joke

--
===============> http://gameworld.f2g.net <===============
"Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies."
"It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether *I* win or
lose."
"I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it."
"Some people are going to leave a mark on this world, while others will
leave a bloodstain."
"A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic" -Stalin

Invité

Re: A gift to you guys from TOTAL ANNIHILATION
Publié: 30 juin 2002 17:57

Répondre

Marco

Re: A gift to you guys from TOTAL ANNIHILATION
Publié: 30 juin 2002 17:57

Répondre

**Scorched** wrote:

> Oh and TA doesn't have unlimited units, there is a 500 unit/building
> limit I think

But you can queue unlimited.. they will just not
> build after 500.

Well there is a "patch" which allows 5000 units... But most people don't
use it in online games. 500 units is usually more than sufficient to crack
even the most fortified base on most maps.

--
Marco

Cognitive dissonance due to reality conflicting with this post
may cause your brain to ache.