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Sujet: How many lurking out there?
Réponses: 7   Pages: 1   Dernier Message: 2 déc. 2002 18:44 par: Charles Shannon Hendrix »


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Invité
How many lurking out there?
Publié: 24 nov. 2002 18:13
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Invité
Re: How many lurking out there?
Publié: 24 nov. 2002 18:13
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Flakker
Re: How many lurking out there?
Publié: 24 nov. 2002 18:14
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Im from Cheshire, England. TA was the first ever game I bought when I
upgraded from a 386sx, the week TA was released. Its still the most playable
game ever.
Flakker
Matthew Fowle <thefowle@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message
news:3DDEF797.A465EDC1@wam.umd.edu...
> still lurking....
>
> > >Just currious as to how many people




Charles Shannon Hendrix
Re: How many lurking out there?
Publié: 30 nov. 2002 18:57
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In article <arr1cn$9rl$1@venus.btinternet.com>, Flakker wrote:
> Im from Cheshire, England. TA was the first ever game I bought when I
> upgraded from a 386sx, the week TA was released. Its still the most playable
> game ever.

I have always wished that someone could get the sources and fix some of
the problems the game has. No other RTS has been as good overall as TA
to me.

I would buy TA again with some features and bug fixes:

* formations
* all units in group order move at same speed
* better pathfinding
* orderly single-file movement for narrow passages
* shorter timeouts before trying other ways around obstacles
* AI which would keep it's units from getting stuck en-masse
* AI which did not rush, but built its base instead
* AI which didn't build a million of everything, just a few
factories like a human would, even modified AIs largely
fail to limit infrastructure
* orderly defenses, not just random placement of weapons, but building
walls around bases, layered defense, etc
* an AI that would build a killzone, with concentrated layered defenses
* an AI that would defend key locations like passes and bridges, using
walls, and static layered defenses as well as units
* an AI that understood close air support
* an AI that knew to defend high-importance targets like nuclear
powerplants, and expensive armor units from air attack
* AI that built clustered anti-air defenses for key resources
* units are built and then stored in bases to reduce clutter, especially
for aircraft
* fog of war doesn't unrealistically hide things you've seen. in
reality, you don't forget where something is when your spy plane
leaves the area!
* an AI that cannot see everything, but which uses its radar and spies
* the ability to order units without seeing them

That last one is especially for aircraft. I played another game where
you could observe a target, and issue orders to units back at your base
without having to go find them and target them.

I really hate how things you've seen disappear in the fog of war,
because that's highly unrealistic.

I think another really cool unit would be a forward observer. This unit
would issue orders to bombers and artillery to hit targets that it sees.
You should be able to tell it what sort of targets to search for and
target.

I'm sure everyone has a wish list. The problem with RTS games is that
instead of doing things like I list above, they just try to create more
flash and eye-candy, without really improving the game. In some cases
they don't even look as good as TA, which remains remarkebly good looking
even after all these years.



Anthony
Re: How many lurking out there?
Publié: 1 déc. 2002 09:19
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Send a wish list to Santa, and he will get you those things you want.

Oh...Don't forget the CRAY super computer you will nedd to run it.
Just giving ya $hit...

There is a "PATCH" to fix almost all the "problems" with TA. Play it
against a human, instead of AI.

But seriously.....
try playing with a few of SHONNER'S AIs. Sure it is not as fun as against a
human player, but they are a lot better than the default TA AIs.

Regards,
Anthony



"Charles Shannon Hendrix" <shannon@news.widomaker.com> wrote in message
news:slrnauhti2.sp.shannon@news.widomaker.com...
> In article <arr1cn$9rl$1@venus.btinternet.com>, Flakker wrote:
> > Im from Cheshire, England. TA was the first ever game I bought when I
> > upgraded from a 386sx, the week TA was released. Its still the most
playable
> > game ever.
>
> I have always wished that someone could get the sources and fix some of
> the problems the game has. No other RTS has been as good overall as TA
> to me.
>
> I would buy TA again with some features and bug fixes:
>
> * formations
> * all units in group order move at same speed
> * better pathfinding
> * orderly single-file movement for narrow passages
> * shorter timeouts before trying other ways around obstacles
> * AI which would keep it's units from getting stuck en-masse
> * AI which did not rush, but built its base instead
> * AI which didn't build a million of everything, just a few
> factories like a human would, even modified AIs largely
> fail to limit infrastructure
> * orderly defenses, not just random placement of weapons, but building
> walls around bases, layered defense, etc
> * an AI that would build a killzone, with concentrated layered defenses
> * an AI that would defend key locations like passes and bridges, using
> walls, and static layered defenses as well as units
> * an AI that understood close air support
> * an AI that knew to defend high-importance targets like nuclear
> powerplants, and expensive armor units from air attack
> * AI that built clustered anti-air defenses for key resources
> * units are built and then stored in bases to reduce clutter, especially
> for aircraft
> * fog of war doesn't unrealistically hide things you've seen. in
> reality, you don't forget where something is when your spy plane
> leaves the area!
> * an AI that cannot see everything, but which uses its radar and spies
> * the ability to order units without seeing them
>
> That last one is especially for aircraft. I played another game where
> you could observe a target, and issue orders to units back at your base
> without having to go find them and target them.
>
> I really hate how things you've seen disappear in the fog of war,
> because that's highly unrealistic.
>
> I think another really cool unit would be a forward observer. This unit
> would issue orders to bombers and artillery to hit targets that it sees.
> You should be able to tell it what sort of targets to search for and
> target.
>
> I'm sure everyone has a wish list. The problem with RTS games is that
> instead of doing things like I list above, they just try to create more
> flash and eye-candy, without really improving the game. In some cases
> they don't even look as good as TA, which remains remarkebly good looking
> even after all these years.
>


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Invité
Re: How many lurking out there?
Publié: 2 déc. 2002 18:39
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Charles Shannon Hendrix
Re: How many lurking out there?
Publié: 2 déc. 2002 18:39
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In article <3de9aa9e$1_2@news.vic.com>, Shonner wrote:
> "Charles Shannon Hendrix" <shannon@news.widomaker.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnauhti2.sp.shannon@news.widomaker.com...
>> * AI which did not rush, but built its base instead
>
> I have an AI profile on my site called Defense Mechanism that does this.

No, I mean one that didn't have that as a basic strategy. All the AI
files do is put limits on production to discourage it.

The basic code in TA is a simple build and rush directly at your enemy
system. It has little other logic to it. It does some minor analysis
of where your defenses are concentrated, but it is easily fooled.

I'm talking about code level AI changes.

>> * AI which didn't build a million of everything, just a few
>> factories like a human would, even modified AIs largely
>> fail to limit infrastructure
>
> You want to give an AI the chance of winning, don't ya? Or are you talking
> about units that cheat? I don't care for those either. I sometimes limit
> the amount of units an AI can build to play out "What if?" situations.

Actually, building too many factories reduces the AIs chance of winning.

Even the most restrictive AIs still eventually build tons of everything,
wasting its resources.

In fact, even if you put a numeric limit in an AI profile, I have found
that TA will still build more than you specify. I get the feeling that
TA's code doesn't follow those settings absolutely.

>> * fog of war doesn't unrealistically hide things you've seen. in
>> reality, you don't forget where something is when your spy plane
>> leaves the area!
>
> TA has a game setting for this already. Don't they?

No, it doesn't.

The only setting they have is where areas uncovered remain uncovered for
the rest of the game. That's not what I'm talking about.

I mean your display showing you the last thing you saw in an area,
not a constant update even when you have no units present.




Charles Shannon Hendrix
Re: How many lurking out there?
Publié: 2 déc. 2002 18:44
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In article <ascgno$9gt$1@ins22.netins.net>, Anthony wrote:

> Oh...Don't forget the CRAY super computer you will nedd to run it.
> Just giving ya $hit...

No kidding, since none of those things would require more power than we
already have.

Most of what TA needs is refinement. It's really too bad the source is
not available.

> There is a "PATCH" to fix almost all the "problems" with TA. Play it
> against a human, instead of AI.

Playing against a human is frustrating because most of the players don't
take it very seriously, or are just looking for a twitch-fest.

I used to play against humans all the time, because I had some local
friends who were into the game, and were reliable players. We played
some games with limits like no air units that lasted for hours.

> But seriously..... try playing with a few of SHONNER'S AIs. Sure it
> is not as fun as against a human player, but they are a lot better
> than the default TA AIs.

I've tried a lot of the AIs, and made a few of my own. Generally all
the AI profiles do is set production limits.

Changing the AI in any serious way requires sources.

It would be interesting to see a TA type game come out that had a
programming interface like the Quake type games, where you could write
pseudo-C code to change the game.